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 A real DUH moment...

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Judge-FF

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Age : 36
Location : I am not Vanhefty on Team Speak!

PostSubject: A real DUH moment...   Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:49 pm

I remembered something, when flying in game, that I haven't taken into conciderationg.


You know when a Spit or Hurri gets behind you, they seem to fire and stay RIGHT behind you easily?

its cause they're going slower...and slower...as they fire.

I remember now why i do flat rolls so much in my 109's and 190's, is I FORGOT THEY'RE SLOWING DOWN.

I'll explain. Then I'll explain why i'm doing it ony half right.



Plane: T---P

Projectile (gun shooting): --->

ME: T---S



T---P --->--->--->--->---> T---S

WHAT allied planes do that AXIS planes don't do unless with heavy cannon rounds firing at the same time, is air frame recoil. WTF is this? Simple.

T---P is shooting his 303 or 306 ammunition. 30 caliber. Muzzle velocity and movment with slip and g force is a math equasion the game uses to determine the arc and range of ammo in game. I was once told that this whole game is based on an air plane simulation. How this proves its self is Muzzle velocity of your rifle, slip, g force are mathmatical equasion on your accuracy. Ever wonder why you can get snipered without even hearing a shot? this is why. The game has to mathmaticaly figure out the balistic's in a plane, and in game. One of the things we often over look in game on the ground on our accuracy is RECOIL.

T---P --->--->---> The 303 and 306 rounds recoil harder than our german ammo in our planes. This causes stress on the air frame.

Say this is normal level flight:
------>-------->------->T---P----->------->

With recoil:
------>------->---->--->-->T---P----------->------------>

With the recoil, the distance it needs to cover, of course, becomes longer. So as the Allies shoot thier guns, they slow down.

When Axis shoots thier not too much smaller ammo, we don't have a positive G force recoil as much as the allies. This slows the Allies down, to stay behind you, while keeping thier RPM and ENGINE SPEED up.

I've flown a lot of allied planes, and simulated as well, and I could never figure out WTF!! why do I either
A) Overshoot my target
B) bring in my gunsights under 200 meters (unthinkable in real world)
C) always have these idiots stay RIGHT behind me??

The damn good pilots know that if they get close, they have to acocount for recoil, and slow down. The P-51 D for an example, if it were to shoot the six 50 caliber machine guns at any longer than 25 seconds, they risk stall speed. Stall speed? yes, since the recoil of shooting 1/2 inch steel from 6 tubes for 25 seconds at best top speed of 490 miles per an hour reduced it to 50 mph. Hence why pilots were trained to only do short bursts of fire.

Theres a huge mathmatical deal about this, but since its in game, the point I'm making is the Allied plane is slowing down.

I was taught that instead of pulling up, or even turning, to snap roll around, the chose a direction and break for it hard, usualy in the direction of your engine pull. Pull down and hit it hard, pull up at an angle and check behind you while you have air speed, for if you do, you can dive down again, at a different angle. Now, see, thats what I've been doing wrong, I still have the head of an Allied plane, that I can out manuver the enemy plane on sheer power, and I don't have that in a 109 or even in a 190. But when I'm in a 110, or in 110FB, I've mentaly accounted for its drag due to size, and power, and tend to manuver with these planes knowing that twin engine planes were way different.

So whats the answer to this complex crap I've now filled your head with?

When Allied planes are shooting at you, they are losing air speed as they do it, by as much as 15% to 20% or more, depending on how long they shoot. And if your in a plane like the F&B, its going to lose a lot of air speed when the cannon rounds are flying.

When you dive bomb with a 109 with cannons, your gaining speed, but when you rake a target with guns and cannons firing, ever notices how in the slip and attack angle you stay? Then your airspeed also becomes slowed enough if you accualy stared at it while practicing offline, you'd notice it. It happens, I tested it.


So maybe this gives you guys some new ideas to concider. I Offline tested the Allied planes, and they all do it more exagerated than our axis ones. So what they're doing is comming in mid level to us with lots of speed, engauging us and firing a lot to compinsate for the airspeed loss.
















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WStriker

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PostSubject: Re: A real DUH moment...   Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:27 pm

I wasn't sure if they'd coded recoil for aircraft or not in this game, but I have noticed that their stall speeds are abnormally low. Of course, I've had a loaded 111 maintain flight at 80kph with flaps up, which is weird to say the least. Anything much below 200kph in a 109 results in a flop if you look cross-eyed at the stick however.
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