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 OK I need to Vent

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Jac44

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PostSubject: OK I need to Vent   Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:21 am

First of all let me apologize to those of you who were online tonight and helping take Turnhout. I immediately left the game after the last friendly cp was taken without giving anyone time to understand why, and I knew I had to do this or rant into the mic....and I won't do that to this group.

Now then, this is the way I see it, and I am sorry if it hurts any feelings or in some way seems very incensed of me, but I have to get this off my chest!

1. When you decide to take a city, PLEASE do your homework and pre-coordinate with those in the field who are available to protect/take the FB's we need in order to spawn in. Do not depend on para drops and FRUS to be your only avenue of approach when you don't have at least two FB's to take such a large city such as Turnhout. I spent a good hour or so guarding a spawnable and having to await anyone to hear me and re-take the linked FB for our troops to use it. Thanks to Gent for attempting to do so.
2. If the target of your attack is to mass on one CP, take it, hold and then rush the AB bunker, take a moment before the mission to look over the field and realize your situation. Even though Turnhout has the East Army Base, it's located in a position in which cutting off the enemies spawn-in availability is a must...this because of the sheer size of the city. The enemy realized after a while that it needed to set up a defensive FRU but when you initially attack, don't be afraid to use your head and CUT off the enemies approach by capping his CP's as well. I watched as people were talking about taking, "any CP" and holding it so we could attempt an assault on an AB which, once the enemy realized the idea, spawned in tanks and began surrounding the parameter. It gave the enemy a very finite posture in which to defend, and then a branch out of approaches to retake the city.... which was EXACTLY what they did!
3. When we were in the plane long before the drop, I continued to write in the chat and even speak out, "HEY GUYS<<<<<<<Who is guarding the FB's! It was a simple question and deserved an answer....It took a player in the field who had nothing to do with FF to tell me that he was hunting frus around the northern FB, and that he was the only one there. This is just wrong!

Now I like playing with FF. I don't mind going the extra step to help support missions and to follow the orders of men like Gent, Striker, RPW and Judge....But please note something here. I know this is only a game, but just like you, I am using precious time defending FB's, Defending CP's, and defending Bunkers, etc. I don't mind doing this for the betterment of a legitimate attack, but what happened tonight was FRIGGIN RIDICULOUS!

OK I feel a little better now.

Thanks Pinto/SSDave for helping me. It is because of Soldat's such as you gentleman who make this game worth playing...and dare I say it, worth staying. FF is one of the best squads out there today...let's keep it this way and not allow something like poor planning and poor execution to happen again. If we at least attempt a coordinated attack and fail, then and only then can we smile and say, "Oh well, we gave it our best".
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rpw1

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PostSubject: Re: OK I need to Vent   Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:11 pm

Myself and other officers encourage ALL FF squad members to speak on issues they feel need addressing. JAC did the right thing here. Instead of venting on comms he waited and wrote it down in forums. This is the correct procedure if no one is listening or helping on comms. I first suggest PMing an officer to voice your concerns over a mission and you SHOULD get a proper response. Please squaddies, lets work together and treat all members with respect. Remember, we strive for progress not perfection.

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Lo there do I see my father, Lo there do I see my mother, my Sisters and my brothers , Lo there do I see the line of my people, back to the beginning. Lo, they do call me, they bid me take my place among them, in the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live forever
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eggert

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PostSubject: Re: OK I need to Vent   Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:12 pm

The Axis side in general has gotten very sloppy in the planning and execution of attacks. The HC seems to rely entirely on their ability to move brigades around in order to reinforce brigades that have been depleted due to casualties, without making any attempt to actually plan attacks properly so that excessive casualties don't happen in the first place. Once upon a time, every Axis attack had a clearly visible HC officer in charge of it, positioning himself somewhere out of harm's way but with a view of the battle so that he could coordinate the effort, with subunit commanders selected from among the various participating squads (or from non-squad volunteers) to lead forces to carry out individual tasks (e.g., FB defense, tank support, infantry to cover the tanks, air support, infantry to assault and hold individual objectives, etc.). Nowadays whoever is in charge of the map just tells some squad to start running FRU's out and then just leaves it at that, without no one in charge of anything, no one coordinating the various efforts, and no clear plan for how to actually succeed.

Personally, I'm a lot more willing to take on the more boring tasks (e.g., guarding depots / FB's) when I have some degree of confidence that the other tasks are actually going to get done.
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Jac44

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PostSubject: Re: OK I need to Vent   Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:24 pm

Thanks RPW and EGGERT for your replies to this. I too see the really terrible change in the GHC since I left command of the 12th Armie years ago. The entire structure seems to be one of a, "jump in and shoot things" play-date, without seriously considering the ramifications as to the whole, and EGG's point about the sheer lack of communication is very justified. When Striker isn't online and Caps is also doing something offline, let's face it, we seem to be at a loss as to any important communications throughout the GHC. Most of the time I watch as RPW attempts to communicate within the TS squads to gather a plan, but considering the entire picture.....

Where's the higher ranking GHC format or structure?

Where's the base, or chain of command information adhered to within the entire army? Is it posted and followed? If not, are those people scrutinized and dropped for others who do care? I would rather have 10 real leaders than a hundred idiots who get online and look to fulfill some glorified ego without really learning anything. To lead in this game I was trained to look at the entire picture, to coordinate with the other groups of leadership in a plan, and to execute the plan with the overall "agreed upon" objective in mind. To say that no one cares each and every day, and then to justify this with having us spawn into a town, spend hours defending or acting as moles, and have NOTHING being done to take advantage of that form of play by other like minded teams, is just plain ridiculous.

I don't know about you guys, but there are tons better shoot'em up games out on the market today, and I didn't sign on and pay close to $20.00 a month to just run around in the field and shoot the enemy for some stupid rank. Yes that's fun to do for bragging rights, but I have always been of the notion that working on an objective for the betterment of the whole is by far more intensively fun. It's the teamwork, mixed with the overall advance which makes this game unique.

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vanhefty

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PostSubject: Re: OK I need to Vent   Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:20 pm

Sorry guys if I've not been as present the last two weeks. mid terms are over now! Yay me!

Anyway, building any attack takes coordination, and that is the aspect of this game that separates it from all the mindless shooters out there. As a squad I always have more fun when we play as unit, even if it is to guard an FB. To me, the whole essence of this game is that team work.

Jac is right in venting. I feel the same way all too often. I have no idea what happened to GHC recently. it seems that since they introduced the Americans HC just feels that the whole campaign is over and they totally give up. That sucks since at least 50% of this game is HC driven. I've been on frequently in the last few weeks and there is not a single HC on, not even a rat.

I don't know what to do to change that.

What we can do is remember that FF is a squad and when possible we should work as a team. We've done great things as a team and we will continue to enhance all our fun when we work as a team.

What I would really like to see is for all our squadies to embrace a few simple concepts:

Boots take CPs not Tanks
The 20mm AA gun can take out every allied unit. Yes, Sherman's and even Churchhills, aircraft, boots, and boats. When there is good cover and good views you can never go wrong spawning a 20 mike.
Tanks are great for long range support of infantry actions, and in this game we to take that seriously and use our tanks at LONG range.
Once you get in a city you can completely stop worrying about armor. You've got smoke, use it.
The semi auto rifle is an awesome weapon.
Learn to use it.
Learn to throw your grenades accurately
Etc etc.

The key idea being to use the boots effectively to take CPs and abs.
Let's work together eh!!
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Judge-FF

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PostSubject: Re: OK I need to Vent   Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:44 am

I'm not ignoring this forum at all, or your addressing this issue Jac. I'm out on the road with a new job. When I get home, I will post a better responce to this.

I will say is, yes, when I make descions I'm lacking any GHC info 90% of the time. But hey, at least when I do something I tell you guys the plan, how we are going to do it, where I need people, the weapons needed, and far enough in advance to see if we can use air cover to our bennifit, anything to our disposal.

Its been more than one time you've all heard me humming the 'A Team' theme song.
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Jac44

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PostSubject: Re: OK I need to Vent   Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:18 pm

Judge-FF wrote:
I'm not ignoring this forum at all, or your addressing this issue Jac. I'm out on the road with a new job. When I get home, I will post a better responce to this.

I will say is, yes, when I make descions I'm lacking any GHC info 90% of the time. But hey, at least when I do something I tell you guys the plan, how we are going to do it, where I need people, the weapons needed, and far enough in advance to see if we can use air cover to our bennifit, anything to our disposal.

Its been more than one time you've all heard me humming the 'A Team' theme song.

We miss ya Judge, get home safely.

Jac
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WStriker

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PostSubject: Re: OK I need to Vent   Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:37 pm

Part of the problem I've seen in GHC is that folks are so worried about "spies" that they sometimes only share information with trusted members of their own squads. By doing so, you only have a bare handful of frus going up to attack a town. Another thing I have seen is that a growing number of players that HATE the FB system refuse to have anything to do with them. There have been more than a few screaming out in chat that HC memebers need to stop spamming about "the GD FBs which ruin the game" and encourage others to ignore all calls for attack or defense there. Certain GHC members also appear to have a rather rough rep with the PB, getting little response on AOs and such. Taishi left GHC and went allied this past week. He was a capable enough HC, but also an arrogant prick. The best that we can do is to pick an FB and rotate our guys through duty there, so everybody gets a chance at the front, and hit as hard as we can in town. If anyone has any ideas they'd like to put forward, do so, and we'll go through them. Things have been feast or famine for the Axis side this campaign. Let's make sure we keep our own house in order, then maybe we can shame others through our actions into doing the same. Overall we've been doing good work here. Let's do better in the future.
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eggert

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PostSubject: Re: OK I need to Vent   Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:33 pm

I can't speak for others, but at least for me, I'm a lot more willing to do boring jobs (guard duty, etc.) if I have some degree of confidence that the more interesting jobs are going to get done properly, and that the people in charge have any idea what they are doing. It also of course helps if there's a "light at the end of the tunnel" in terms of knowing how long I'll be stuck on boring duty. Not being the only person on boring duty helps as well.

But yeah, the FB system sucks ass.
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Jac44

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PostSubject: Re: OK I need to Vent   Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:44 pm

Well, like Egg I don't mind doing the boring jobs as long as I know it's for a cause which is justifiably meaningful toward an overall victory. In fact, unlike most players, I like the challenge of defending an FB or guarding a CP/AB Bunker.

My original reason for posting this "rant" was based solely on the lack of "pre-coordination" at the squad/mid level HQ part of the organization. Today we have an entire GHC base whom if you were to ask most of them to name the individual squad and their leaders on TS3, they'd tell you to kiss off.

Years ago when there was no direct control over supply and the only way it was moved was by communications between the upper GHC ranks, the lower GHC level officers (mostly CO's of the squads) and the Rats....the entire mode of operation was "INVOLVED" at all levels. When you had one squad on and working in Teamspeak, and there wasn't an officer in the GHC on from that squad, it was the obligation of the ranking squad XO's down the rank (seniority predetermined at thew squad level), to first contact GHC HQ (then on Channel 18 thru 25 depending on the GHCCO's monthly decision), and from there the overall coordination of the advance/defense, etc. It basically forced the squads to either play as a team with the overall GHC or be branded an outcast (thus the 91st debacle which is legendary in this game now...Yes yours truly was one of the officers who kept them working with us even after they balked Smile.....

I am not saying this is a perfect mode of operations, and I don't have all the answers, but there has to be something better out there than to just guard an FB for two hours, watch as idiots spawn tanks, kill the supply, and then pull the AO....It forces good players to care less.

Lastly, there was a time when Armie level officers HAD to have a meeting with their respective ranks at least once a quarter, or they would lose their position. It was done by either everyone in one room, or the officer doing his due diligence to check in with his adjutants down the ranks. We did this by email, by chat, by TS, or by anything necessary. It gave the GHC a pulse to touch and track and when there were gripes, there was a fair way of dealing with them without worrying about ignorance to why the dissension happened in the first place.

We have in place today a skeleton by which this could be a reality...We need someone who cares enough to coordinate it and get it done. Develop a chain of command...Personally, I did my time for Fuhrer and country...I'm retired.
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